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This guest post comes from Donna Freedman, a blogger at MSN Money’s Smart Spending blog. Donna is one of my favorite personal finance writers. This is a reprint (with permission) of one of her recent pieces.
On Friday I visited Office Depot for school backpacks at the killer price of $2.99. Along with other loss-leader school supplies, they’ll be donated to a local social services agency. At the checkout, I handed over a “20% off all backpacks” coupon from an Office Depot mailer. The cash register wouldn’t accept the coupon. “These are already on sale so the coupon won’t work,” the salesclerk said.
I noted, politely, that the coupon did not say “not good on sale-priced items.” The cashier tried again. No dice. “It’s not letting it go through,” she said, and waited. I got the distinct impression she wanted me to say, “Oh, that’s OK.” But I wasn’t going to say that, because my belief is that a store should honor its published offers.
She called a manager, who told me the coupon wasn’t intended for sale items. I again pointed out that nowhere on the coupon did it say that. This started off a 10-minute dance between manager and consumer over what would have been a $3 discount.
Before you write me off as an intractable miser, consider this: What happens when consumers do not insist that businesses keep their word?
All kinds of reasons
During our little discount minuet, the manager demanded to see the mailer from which I’d taken the ad, saying it would explain that the coupon was not good on sale items. I went out to my car and got the ad; it said no such thing.
The manager, whom I’ll call Nancy, tried several other tacks. She pored over the fine print in the store’s weekly ad — complaining it was hard to read because the doctor had dilated her eyes that morning — but nothing in the ad excluded coupons. She said that “corporate” never intended for coupons to be used with sale items, and that’s why the computer wouldn’t allow it — the computer is programmed by “corporate.”
If that’s the case, I suggested, then “not valid with sale items” ought to be written on the coupon.
She looked at it again, noting the phrase “we reserve the right to limit quantities.” I’d bought five, the limit noted in the weekly flier. Nancy said, “I’ll give you the coupon on one of them.” I replied that nowhere on the coupon does it say that it was good for just one item.
“It says ‘one-time use’, so I’ll let you have it for just the one.” I suggested that “one-time use” might actually mean that I couldn’t use the coupon again the next day.
Nancy said that when I signed up for the store rewards program, I would have gotten an e-mail explaining, among other things, why coupons couldn’t be used on sale items. I repeated, “Shouldn’t that be written on the coupon itself?”
A real headache
The manager said she’d send my “information” to corporate headquarters and have them explain why coupons can’t be used on sale items. First she asked for my driver’s license, which I would not have given, and then decided that just my rewards card would do. She wrote down the card number and told me that at $2.99, the store was losing money on the backpacks. Using a coupon made it worse.
I replied that I was familiar with the concept of a loss leader: you lose money on some items to get people into the store.
Finally the manager told the cashier to override the register and ring up the discount for all five backpacks. “I don’t want to spend any more time on this. I have a headache,” she said.
You and me both, Nancy. Confrontation is not easy for me. I simply wanted Office Depot to make good on its published promise.
Why you should care
Some of you are probably thinking, It’s only $3 — give it up, already. I don’t think that the amount matters. The company mailed me a flier full of discounts in the hope I would come to one of its stores. When I tried to use one of those discounts, employees decided that it shouldn’t apply to sales.
Suppose you saw a coupon good for 20% off all winter coats, but when you get to the store you’re told, “Oh, it’s not good on red coats.” Or imagine seeing a car ad, “20% off all Chevrolets,” but when you get to the dealership you’re told that it’s only good on four-door sedans.
There’s a term for this. It’s called bait and switch. Get the customer into the store and then change the terms.
What happened at Office Depot was not a bait and switch per se, but it still wasn’t good customer relations. Yes, I understand that the company is taking a hit pricing its backpacks at $2.99 and that an additional 60-cent discount hurts even more. But that’s a cost of doing business: Advertise something really cheaply and hope people buy enough other things to make the loss leader worthwhile.
Certainly any company is within its rights to limit coupon use on loss leaders. But if that’s what corporate wants, then corporate needs to be very clear, and it needs to do so on the coupon. I don’t want to rely on the personal interpretation of a cash register. Or a manager with a headache.
J.D.’s note: I’m proud of Donna for standing up for herself. It can seem ludicrous to fight bureaucracy for just a few bucks, but I make a point of doing it, too. (Read “I want my four dollars!” for a real-life example from the early days of Get Rich Slowly. I love that story.) Later today I’ll share another tale of fighting corporate madness. Photos by The Consumerist and mlcastle.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:29 am
Ha! This reminds me so much of The Office episode where Micheal orders 8 pizzas and has a half off coupon. The delivery boy says it only works for up to 2 pizzas, but it doesn’t say that on the coupon! So they proceed to to hold the delivery boy against his will. Funny Stuff.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:30 am
Good for her. Many of these stores have started using vague terms on coupons like “not valid on technology”. I’m not sure what technology really is. The man in line in front of me wanted to use a 20% off coupon on a graphing calculator which the store called technology. I’m not sure I call a TI84 technology (if I can buy it at a drug store is it really technology?).
The man seemed nice so I stepped up to help. I grabbed a cheap calculator off the shelf put it on the counter and asked the other cashier if I could use the 20% off coupon with this he said “yes” I pointed to the TI84 and asked about it he said “no, it’s technology” so I inquired about when a calculator becomes technology. I asked him to show me so I drug him back to the calculator section and kept pointing to calculators asking if they were technology or calculators? He was towing a line of graphing calculators are technology standard are office supplies. I found some really fancy $200 engineering or accounting calculator which I couldn’t make heads or tails of, he said calculator, I read the box which said “technology driven” or something similar on it. Clearly they wanted people to come in to try and get a Graphing calculator for school with a coupon and end up not using it and buying one because they were there. The employee eventually cut me a deal and said he would let me use the coupon with the TI84. I told him I didn’t want it but the guy up front did and he should get to use the coupon. You could tell this employee was a bit upset that I stepped in to win this battle for another customer. They gave him the 20% off and scowled at me. I won.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:36 am
I stopped going to a particular grocery store because they refused to honor coupons I had printed on my computer, even though their corporate policy didn’t ban them. So the grocery store saved themselves a few dollars that day, but lost thousands over the long term. While I don’t think the customer is always right (sometimes they’re trying to get away with something they shouldn’t), in your case Office Depot wasted lots of time over $3 and potentially lost a long term customer. That’s a terrible corporate policy if they want people to actually come back to their store.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:47 am
I love seeing others fight for every penny.
I find that I either am careful with my money or I am not. Being careful with large amounts but not paying attention to pennies and dollars just isn’t possible for me.
I have spent a significant portion of my adult life living in countries outside the United States and have been fortunate enough to be exempt from foreign taxes. In every country I lived in sales clerks regularly told me that they did not know how to ring up a sale without tax. Most of them never understood why I was willing to wait around for a manager to ring up the sale just to save a few cents (or yuan, or dollars, or whatever).
RDS
http://financialvalues.blogspot.com/
August 7th, 2008 at 5:48 am
This is a very good example of why small things matter. Good job!!
August 7th, 2008 at 5:48 am
This has everything to do with holding a business accountable to keeping their word. You were right to keep your ground and not give in!
August 7th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Great story! I agree, it’s difficult to justify 10 minutes for a $3 savings, but your supporting argument changed my mind.
The thing is, these large companies seldom err on the side of the consumer. The consumer is expected to read the fine print, so the corporations should be held to the same standard. $3, in this case, is the difference of a disadvantaged kid having a backpack. $3 in the corporation’s hands is not even a drop in the bucket.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:56 am
No thanks. This is a “battle” I will always skip. I can assure you that Office Depot is not trying to pull a fast one, because the last thing they need is a bunch of clogged up register lines. And remember that store-level employees WANT this stuff to work. The last thing they need is a difficult transaction like this. They want your coupon to work because it makes their lives easier. Of course anyone willing to make a scene will almost always get their way because the store manager cannot afford to make other customers angry because of their wait. And a good mananger knows that corporate will always say to give the customer what they wanted if the complaint reaches that stage.
So if you take this tact you didn’t “win” because store management has no choice. You didn’t pull one over anyone. My personal preference is to make enough money that $3 is not a concern. Thanks.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:59 am
The idea that the manager even attempted to thwart the use of the coupon is outrageous. These big box stores stand to lose a lot of credibility in a hurry with today’s blogosphere.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:04 am
“My personal preference is to make enough money that $3 is not a concern. Thanks.”
Why do posts like this always get people like Kevin commenting on them?
August 7th, 2008 at 6:04 am
I am glad she stood up for herself and using the coupon. Stores need to be more clear on their policies. I have found that many cashiers are very confused over how coupons work and stores need to do better about training them. I had a similar experience at Target over cheese coupons. It was a nightmare, but I stood my ground and they honored the coupons. Unfortunately most people give up immediately and of course that is what the stores are hoping we do.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:06 am
I agree with Kevin #5 The world isn’t out to get all of us and screw us all out of our three dollars. No one who managed to get a coupon to work when the store claimed it wouldn’t isn’t changing lives. Websites like the Consumerist have bred an Us vs. Them attitude that is useful when a company is legitimately pulling a fast one (lowering product sizes, keeping prices) but has unfortunately led to the symptom of entitlement among millions of consumers everywhere. I would hesitate to argue that the customer is not always right. Besides, what a waste of time. I hope there weren’t 20 people behind you. And I hope you’re fighting just as hard for bigger changes, perhaps lobbying with your state representatives for stricter rules on commerce if you are really so concerned about the legal language on a coupon.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:07 am
The clerk was right about what one time use means though, or at least that has always been my understanding of the term. They don’t need it for the next day because they take it away when you use it.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:10 am
I’ve had this sort of thing happen to me on multiple occasions. I’ve also had the weird experience of a cashier ringing something else wrong, then they whine about fixing it.
Here’s the run-down:
I was buying kale, which is by the bunch. The cashier accidentally rung it up twice (I heard 2 beeps), and then they quickly shoved it in a bag. I said “excuse me, but I believe you just rung that up twice”. The guy said “that’s because there is 2 bunches”. I asked him to check the bag, he would see it was only one bunch (a large bunch, but a bunch nonetheless). He rolled his eyes, pulled it out, saw it was one bunch, let out this annoyed sigh, then shoved it back in the bag. After he deleted the 2nd entry on the receipt, he actually had the nerve to say, “Happy?!”
Yup, I’m happy, but you won’t be when the manager hears what just happened…
August 7th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Good post. Reminds me of the Consumerist.
PS-I know it’s merely for illustration, but the picture you posted is one of Target. You should use one of an Office Depot or something more generic.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:14 am
This is a great illustration of how much customer service has gone down hill in the last fifteen years or so. I worked the cashiers at Wal-Mart in the early ’90s, and our general store policy was that if a customer haggled over a couple of bucks, cheerfully let them have their way, keep them happy and coming back, and keep the line moving. That sort of thinking just doesn’t exist anymore, at least not in large chain retail.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Hurrah!
I did this for years at the grocery store. They were notorious for overcharging, or not recognizing sale prices. Not overtly I’m sure. They were probably just sloppy about updating their scanner-registers. It became a game for me, and an incentive to get my kids to behave well at the store. (We got double the item price refunded, and the kids could keep it.)
My hard work did pay off, over time I caught errors less often.
I did recently discover that to get double the difference I have to pay the bill, then go to customer service. If I catch the error on my handheld scanner before checking out I have to wait at the CS desk just as long but no refund.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Keep in mind the cashier is probably the lowest paid employee in the store… They wouldn’t be there if they didn’t NEED the job. The cashier is not out to screw you. They are just trying to get thru the day and keep thier job. Instead of tying up the cashier and manager (as well as other customers in line) send a letter to corporate. Outline the problem, be specific, and ask for a remedy.. You will probably get a coupon or gift card for more than the amount in question and you have let corporate know that we comsumers see this as a problem..
SAVE ON!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 6:24 am
The manager should have just overrided the sale right away instead of arguing with you. Sheesh.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:24 am
@Ellie - I agree that you received some very rude service. But the mistake was corrected. When I find myself in your position I try to bear in mind that cashiers and store clerks are human beings too. Maybe the cashier was sick that day. Maybe there was a fight with the spouse. Maybe his/her kids are having problems in school. The point is, not everything requires a talk with the manager. If they insisted on over-charging you, then yes, that requires a visit with the manager. Otherwise, sometimes the charitable thing to do is turn the other cheek and let it go. I’m 37 and I’ve never filed a complaint with a manager. It is almost never necessary.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:28 am
This story really turned my stomach, perhaps because my mother has been in retail management for years.
Corporate really DOES control these decisions most of the time, and this kind of behavior on the manager’s part often results in disciplinary actions. While you saved a few bucks, you may have cost that woman her job for not adhering to corporate policy. Store managers at big box companies absolutely DO NOT have the power to make these kinds of decisions. While you might think you’re fighting “the man” or at least “Office Depot”, “Nancy” is really the only one you’re fighting.
Are these stores sloppy in their language? Sure. But I’ll bet that “Nancy” didn’t write that coupon, doesn’t work at Office Depot for the sheer satisfaction, and won’t appreciate the hassle of explaining this situation to her DM.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:28 am
When I’m confronted by someone telling me that the store or company intended something other than what the coupon says, I simply point out that they’re not bound by what they intended to say, they’re bound by what they said.
It’s also worth noting that there will be times when the store manager simply won’t back down. If you leave the store unsatisfied, definitely file a complaint with corporate on the store’s web site. There are plenty of sources of advice on how to write an effective complaint letter, but the basics are that you should be polite, be factual, be reasonable, and clearly state what you are looking for as compensation for the problem.
If you leave the store without satisfaction (provided you’re not being unreasonable), it can be attributed to the ignorance or lack of customer focus of the store’s personnel. This is not a good thing, but it isn’t terribly unusual. Most of these people are there to get their eight bucks an hour and go home.
If you don’t get satisfaction from corporate, it means that a very highly paid person is making a decision to reduce the company’s revenue by alienating a customer. This is the kind of decision that tends to weed people out before they reach such a level in a large retail organization, and as such is very unusual.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:30 am
I’ve actually had the OPPOSITE occur to me. I was purchasing some clothing and had a $10 off coupon. I hadn’t realized it was expired, but the cashier gave me the discount anyway.
About a week later I was making some purchases at Canadian Tire (big box store), and I knew my coupon expired the day before, but I thought I’d try it. The cashier said it was expired, but then asked if I had a few minutes. I said I did. She then went and found a coupon that was printed in the local paper for $10 off, photocopied it, and then allowed me to use it. That’s good customer service!!
August 7th, 2008 at 6:35 am
In regards to what Kevin said, sometimes when you get to a cashier you might be the 100th, 200th or even 500th person they have dealt with that day you don’t know how rude those people before you have been, and sometimes it just adds up. It’s unfortunate and it doesn’t excuse rudeness, it is another thing to keep in mind though.
Also anyone who has never worked retail might be shocked at how many people treat cashiers as subhuman.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:37 am
I agree that standing up for yourself was the right thing to do as you were correct. If the coupon did not say that it did not apply to sales items, then you should have been able to use it regardless of the fact that the register did not read it. Nevertheless, I diagree with your examples that you used. It is in no way the same as going to a store selling winter coats and then they tell you it does not apply to Red Coats only. Office Depot was making the argument that it did not apply to Sale Items because the item you were buying was already on sale, and to discount it more would be rediculous. Yes, they made the mistake so you were able to take advantage of that mistake, but in no way was is it the same as your example. Additionally, if a bunch of cars are on sale, and you can get 20% off, it would be a mistake on the part of the dealer to not mention that it does not apply to 4 door sedans. The example given by another person about the different types of calculators would fit your metaphore more accurately as you cannot say certain calculators are technology and others are not. This mishap with the coupon not saying it does not apply to items on sale was simply a mistake, not a bait and switch. Its OK to give a corporation the benefit of the doubt. Yes, the customer service was terrible and the manager did a terrible job, but Office Depot “the corporation” was not out to get you.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:39 am
At 10 minutes into the conversation, you’ve tied up the manager + cashier for 20 billable minutes of wages. That alone, one would think, should surpass the $3 “loss” the company is trying to save.
I’ve done this back in the day with cold-calling telemarketers and a few times in person at stores, similar to this instance. Point out that the clock is ticking and while they are arguing with you, it costs the company money each minute they sit there and argue a petty fact with you. This usually really irritates them =)
August 7th, 2008 at 6:41 am
Recently I went to best buy with two coupons, one which was 12% with their rewards card and one which was 10% regardless. I bought two items, one more expensive than the other, but both were valid for either coupon.
Obviously I wanted the higher priced item to get the 12% off, so I specifically asked the cashier if it would work that way, because I’d buy the items one at a time if I needed. I was reassured, but it didn’t go through that way at all.
The lady at the customer service practically argued with me that there was nothing that could be done “the computer just applies the coupons randomly” (yeah right), and it took some time to get across the idea that I would have bought them one at a time if I had known. “There’s nothing I can do”. I suggested return them both and buy them again one at a time, which she eventually did.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:42 am
In 1957, a woman bought a pair of jeans on sale for $8. When she found out the zipper was broken, she came back and asked for a refund or a replacement. The store refused. Then she stopped payment of the check that she had used to pay for the jeans, had the zipper repaired herself for $2, and offered to pay the store the difference of $6. The store refused her offer, demanded full payment of the original price of the jeans which was $13.98, and, when she refused, filed a criminal complaint for fraud against her — admittedly to make an example of her so other customers don’t stop payment on their checks.
She filed a lawsuit against the management of the store for malicious prosecution because she had not intended to defraud the store and they knew that. The trial court threw out her case immediately. She appealed it to a federal court — literally making a federal case out of an initial argument over $2! She won!! (She didn’t exactly win the $2.8 million in damages she was seeking — just the right to pursue her case as a legitimate case in trial court and so forth. So she probably settled with the management out of court for a tidy sum.)
The moral is sometimes it does pay to fight over a mere $2!
Here’s a link to the actual case if anyone is interested: http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/591/591.F2d.242.78-1637.html
August 7th, 2008 at 6:45 am
I totally agree that it’s worth saving the money, and we should all demand accountability but please please please take it easy on the young ones. I spent many years as a cashier, and at 16 years old working part time having a customer “prove a point” regarding something I had yet to fully understand was a really awful experience. Ask for a manager, remain calm, some of these kids are still learning and only repeating what they’ve been taught.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:49 am
I work part-time at a moderate department store. Just a few days ago, a customer flew into a rage because the items she wanted to purchase were CLEARLY excluded on the coupons she had. She had such a fit, the next customer actually took several steps back. She ranted and raved about how “they give you this coupon just to get you in the store and then you can’t use it”. Yes, ma’am, every merchant uses coupons to get you into their store. They can be used, if you follow the rules. It is no different than driving down the right side of the road - that is a “rule” - you would have a bigger fit if someone broke that rule. My employer excludes certain items on ALL coupons - it is not their choice - it is in the selling agreement with the manufacturer.
In the situation with the calculator - the ad people need to be more careful and more specific. They seemed to be sloppy and assumed that the average customer knows what they know. BIG MISTAKE!
My employer expects us to follow the ’spirit’ of their customer service motto - not the ‘letter’ - however, we cannot give away the store just because a 40 year old cannot read and wants to throw a tantrum. If I gave everyone what this woman wanted, I would not have a job.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:57 am
I think part of the problem is that people tend to have bad reactions to coupons. I’m not sure why.
I was once using several coupons at a Walgreens to buy some makeup. The store had the makeup on sale (buy one, get one free), and I had some manufacturer’s coupons for the brand. Something like $2 off each item. The coupons were limited 1 per item, not one per customer or transaction. So I brought several coupons.
As I went to check out, the store manager told me repeatedly that I was committing “coupon fraud”. He said it wasn’t right for me to use the $2 off when I was getting one item for free. Basically, his argument was you can’t take $2 off of free (not true: it’s called -$2, or an overage). I told him he could either ring up the purchase, or refuse me service, but that I wasn’t committing fraud since there wasn’t anything on the coupon dictating “not applicable with other offers” or something similar. Fortunately he decided to ring up the purchase, but repeatedly called me a thief.
Of course, that experience has now left such a bad taste in my mouth that I doubt I’ll ever go back to Walgreens (this happened 6 months ago). I saved money, but I was mortified.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:01 am
This is such a poor example of bait and switch…
And I agree with Kevin: it’s $3 - let it go girl…
August 7th, 2008 at 7:03 am
It kept being said that it was only $3. No, it was only 60 cents. And your battle is with corporate not the kid who has nothing to go on other than what the register says. I as the cashier will give 60cents to people like you just to make you go away and make everybody elses life a little bit smoother, i.e. all those people in line behind you. karma will take that 60 cents from your grubby little hands soon enough anyways.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:19 am
I’ve worked retail on and off for about 10 years, and yeah, Office Depot should have honored the coupon without question since it didn’t say anything about not being valid with sale items. I’m uneasy about the sort of things that people do with coupons, like Autumn #18 was describing, but mostly from the cashier’s point of view. Depending on the retailer, it’s entirely possible that a cashier could get into significant trouble doing some of those things.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Congratulations. You wasted your own 10 minutes, the 10 minutes of the register operator, the 10 minutes of the manager, and the 10 minutes of each person behind you in line…for $3. Victory! Don’t get me wrong, I agree that they shouldn’t have such undisclosed rules regarding their coupons, but three dollars? Seriously? You were willing to create a huge amount of stress (I’ve worked retail; dealing with customers like you is hugely stressful, even when they’re in the right) and waste 10 minutes of your time for three dollars?
“Oh, but it wasn’t just about $3! I won a battle against big bad mean old corporate America!”
Or, what’s more likely, is that big bad mean old corporate Office Depot never heard of and will never give a single damn about this incident, and you just wasted a bunch of people’s time and created a situation in which several people daydream of *harming* you, all for $3. I wouldn’t really call that a win.
I would have inquired as to why the coupon didn’t work the way it should have worked and then I would have dropped it, until I got home. At that point I would have written an e-mail or letter to Office Depot, informing them that their intentions for the coupon and what was actually printed on it were misaligned. They’re the ones that printed the coupon, they’re the ones that come up with secret rules such as “no coupons on sale items,” and they’re the ones that put such rules into the registers, so they should be the ones to get an earful.
I suggest that everyone here go read http://notalwaysright.com/ for a bit. I can assure you that those kinds of stories are not exaggerated. They happened to me just about everyday I worked retail. Now, the next time you walk up to a register and the employee seems a bit on edge, defensive, or maybe just a little upset with the world, maybe you can understand why.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Meanwhile, I’m the guy in line stuck behind you.
I just popped in to buy some pens.
It ended up taking over 20 minutes because of you.
I’m self-employed and bill my time at $100 an hour.
I’m glad you saved $3. You just cost me $30.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:27 am
I definitely see Donna’s point of view and would want the 20% discount for myself as well. But I can also see Office Depot printing “not valid with sale items” on their coupons in the future as a result of this.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:33 am
It concerns me that certain people can treat money so indifferently. When I was a poor college student, $3 was really the difference between me suffering from hunger symptoms for a day or having a decent day at school. $3 is a big deal for so many people, it’s water, it’s food, it’s transportation and it kills me that $3 can be so insignificant.
I’m no longer poor, but i know first hand what it’s like to be in that situation, where you’re actually counting your savings in dimes and happy to have “gourmet” ramen in your roach infested bachelor. I respect every single penny I come across. If I drop one on the street, I go back and pick it up.
So for those who fight for their $3, then go for it. I applaud you and I’d try to do the same.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:38 am
On the other hand, I do agree with many commenters that taking this too far can breed an Us vs. Them attitude that’s counter-productive. Be polite. Fight only for what is fair.
Melissa A. (#19) is right: the correct response from the manager — both from a customer service and a profitability standpoint — was to just give Donna the three dollars from the start and move on.
Beth (#30) points out a type of customer I hate: the one who thinks she is always right, even when she’s clearly wrong. These people make my blood boil because they waste everybody’s time. But Donna wasn’t one of those. Donna was right, and I’m happy she fought her little fight.
Finally, Uncle Midriff (#35) has a good point that sometimes it’s better to take the fight to where it really matters: in this case with “corporate”. The real problem there, though, is that it can be nigh impossible to fight the bureaucracy. I’ve tried it. It’s a nightmare.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I cannot count the number of times I have had to FIGHT for a few cents, but I know it makes a difference in my pocket each & every time I insist that the company stick to their word. We are meant to stick to ours, when we use our debit card to pay them or write a check assuming we have enough money in the account to cover it. When we don’t hold up our end of the bargain we get slapped with fees & nasty phone calls & letters because we have to stick to our word. It’s only fair they do the same. So often, sales associates don’t seem to realize how one bad episode with an honest consumer can turn that consumer from the store, not forever perhaps, but for a while. I always appreciate someone going the extra mile to see it from a CONSUMER’S point of view & NOT CORPORATE’S POINT OF VIEW!
August 7th, 2008 at 7:52 am
The problem for me is corporations. There is such a disconnect with people because corporations are run soley for profit. That is why I think people see this a such a triumph.
A separate issue is paying low wages for these jobs, no job security, etc. Corporate thinking eliminates the person and focuses on the costs.
Don’t shop at a corporate store. Patronize those few shops left where you can talk to the actual owner, or their manager, in the store.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:53 am
#36 Matt: This is when you need to be a more mindful consumer & ask someone to open a new register so that you can go on your merry way while others are trying to make sure the “Big Guy” sticks to his word. Obviously, you don’t know the value of $3.00 to those of us who don’t make $100.00 an hour. And why are you billing someone while you’re buying pens?
August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Retailers send out fliers and catalogs with misprints all the time. Let’s put them all out of business by holding them to their error and make them sell me a $300 item for $49. Yeah!
Sometimes you should consider what it’s like when the shoe is on the other foot.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Rock on Donna Freedman! It’s nice to know that there are other people who care about a few dollars.
If I didn’t look over my utility bills and credit card statements, and then take a couple hours a month making phone calls to fix errors - I would be out $50 to $100 per month.
Every little bit adds up.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
I have regularly had to fight with my local grocery store and (chain) drug store for not having their sale prices in the scanners.
For example, “Kraft Pudding (various flavors)” will be on sale, and the sign is in the are of all the puddings — but when I check out, the butterscotch flavor doesn’t ring up with the rest of them on sale.
Also, the drug store recently changed its “buy one get one” policy from the (standard) that you can buy one at half price to “you have to pay full price for the first one and then zero for the next” and so on. This was never marked or noted anywhere, and I’ve never seen any other store ever do that. There are, however, signs for it now with “BOGO” items, a few weeks later.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Reminds me of my fight with McDonalds’ whose $1 large drinks only if you don’t order it with a value meal then its $1.49!!
August 7th, 2008 at 8:13 am
I had similar incident recently when a fast food coupon I had didn’t ring through correctly. The entire meal should have been for $3.00, but it rang up at $3.58. Yes, I argued over the 58¢. The young man at the register wasn’t able to override the coupon, so I asked for the manager. She looked at the coupon and decided that yes, indeed, the register was scanning it incorrectly. She gave me my 58¢.
Was it worth it? Yes, I think so. The small amount, in and of itself, wouldn’t make or break me, but it would determine whether or not I returned to that place of business.
Also, instead of looking at it as “just 58¢”, I look at it as a percentage. I would have ended up paying nearly 20% more for the meal if I hadn’t argued my case. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think a 20% upcharge is pretty hefty. If I’d been buying a $100 item, I certainly would have argued it if they’d tried to charge me $120.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:16 am
You know, I would probably PAY $3 not to have to fight with people for half an hour to get my way over something so small. And I don’t have $3 to spare.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:22 am
The consumer was getting a great deal on backpacks, and was going beyond greedy to expect more. Just because the legalese wasn’t printed on the coupon doesn’t mean that the consumer was right to expect to get the discount. People like this consumer are make this such a litigious society. And this WAS NOT Bait and Switch, and to even use that phrase in this example totally overplays the consumer’s hand in this.
However, the manager should have immediately applied the 20% discount. There are some consumers who you can make happy only by making them feel as though they got away with something.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:22 am
“Meanwhile, I’m the guy in line stuck behind you. I just popped in to buy some pens.
It ended up taking over 20 minutes because of you. I’m self-employed and bill my time at $100 an hour. I’m glad you saved $3. You just cost me $30.”
If you are performing a legitimate opportunity cost analysis to shopping for pens, and you are actually turning down available work at a rate of $100/hr, then you are a fool for going to Office Depot in the first place. A fool. You should have ordered your pens from Amazon in the first place, in less than 5 minutes, and stayed in the office to keep billing hours. More likely those extra hours weren’t actually available, so in this case, your “my time is worth X!” argument is hogwash.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:29 am
My response whenever I find myself in a situation with someone (like the manager in the original post) when they say
“But it’s only three dollars”
you say
“If it’s only three dollars then it shouldn’t be a big deal to give me the discount”
takes all the air out of their argument.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:30 am
People forget sometimes that companies are just the aggregate of the people that work for them. It was somebody’s job to make that coupon. Did they do it perfectly? No.
Does the author do her job perfectly? More to the point, if she titles a blog post “I’ll give you 5 bucks…” with the intent of continuing it into the post “…if you can find me xxx,” do I have the right to say “You need to give me five dollars! You said so in your post!” She didn’t include a disclaimer that the title of the post wasn’t a promise!
There’s a common understanding about things. You don’t use coupons on sale items because THEY’RE ON SALE. The coupon is built in. The company, in fact, is saving you the time of clipping the coupon.
What this lady accomplished was ruining the day of the cashier, the manager, and the 9 people who probably ended up behind her in line because she was taking 10 minutes to buy five backpacks.
As the person above me said, I would have offered to pay the lady $3 just so she could leave and I could buy my things. Why? Because I value my time at above $18 an hour. ($3 for 10 minutes of waiting). What this really shows is that this lady doesn’t have anything better to do than finagle over $3.
If you’re forcing the jaws of common understandings open to reach down the gullet and get $3, you’re just being obstinate.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:43 am
“There’s a common understanding about things. You don’t use coupons on sale items because THEY’RE ON SALE. The coupon is built in.”
I don’t agree with this at all. A sale is a sale and a coupon is a coupon. They aren’t mutually exclusive, unless it is clearly stated on the coupon or the advertising literature. Many shoppers “piggyback” their coupons onto sale items on a daily basis in a variety of stores.
I disagree that there is “common understanding” that this isn’t (or in your opinion, shouldn’t be) done.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Some of this makes me laugh.
This is a free country. At will.
You go into the store. You expect a discount because you have a coupon. They say no to that coupon. At that point in time, make a freaking decision. Either buy or don’t buy.
If you don’t agree, don’t sit there and whine, bitch, cry, argue, negotiate or whatever you want to call it. LEAVE. TALK WITH YOUR MONEY, not your mouth.
Why. Because it is not just your time your are spending. It is the cashier, the managers, and the other people in the store in line behind you and next to you.
Negotiating for 20 minutes over $3 isn’t the point. Everyone with a life knows that is a waste of time, there are countless other things you could have done with that time.
Would you spend 3 hours to save 10 cents to prove a point? Then you just proved mine.
That point is make your life a bit simpler, and you won’t have to care about coupons and cashiers.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Donna is certainly a more patient person than I am. I don’t think I would use so much effort to save such a small amount of money. But I think her point is valid. Stores really should honor their coupons and not change the terms once the consumer tries to redeem.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:49 am
I’m confused why ONE coupon discount would be applied to ALL items in one transaction - unless the coupon says 20% off your TOTAL order. If it wasn’t stated I have never seen a business take one coupon and reuse it a bunch of times. I would have needed a coupon on each individual item to make it legit. I think it is unfair of the customer to fight them on this.
I read about people getting a credit back on “free” items once the coupon is used. Again, I dont think any business has to do this and I have never seen it is real life. I also wouldnt fight them for it. If you didnt put money into the item how can you expect to get money back? If you won a free car in a contest would you expect back a “$1000 money back” incentive promo the lot was running for paying customers? No.
As far as fighting back on overcharges - I do it all the time due to principle - not dollar amount. WIth my point above I think it was wrong to expect 20% on every item, but I would maybe have asked politely for the coupon to be accepted on the one I’m entitled to because it didnt say sale items were excluded. I also dont think personnel in retail necessarily even know the right answers (per corporate) and all its little policies and should grant it at their own discretion.
I wish I could remember more details of a case - but in the early 90s or so Safeway got slammed because they overcharged every customer like a dime and made huge profits for such ‘illegal’ activity. It just burns me either way, so I fight it. At the grocer though, I let the cashier finish because they rarely will comply with fixing an overcharge. I just take my receipt to the customer desk and get a refund - since I get the item for free if I catch a mistake.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:05 am
As someone who has worked in many hourly customer-service jobs (including retail), this type of situation would not bother me one bit. But then I’d also agree with giving the customer the discount, and I would be working with the customer instead of against. I think they call that “consultative sales”.
Elevating the issue to the manager, the employee is free to help the other customers in line and return to the backpack person a few minutes later.
Yes, three dollars is hardly worth bickering over, but just because I’m fortunate enough to have $3 in expendable income doesn’t mean that the entire population is in the same situation.
It seems customer service is fast approaching obsolescence. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a customer interacting with an employee, thanked them, and been replied to with “yup” instead of a “thanks for your business” or something similar.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I would love to see the correlation between people who regularly use coupons and people who will fight for any amount of time over any amount of money, even in cases when the time they spend is considerably more valuable than the money.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:12 am
This is the kind of situation that leads to companies canceling coupons for everybody.
And this is also precisely why I have kept the job I have instead of taking one where waiting on customers was necessary. I do not agree that the customer is always right, and this kind of stuff drives me up the wall.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Apparently you place zero value on your time (and that of the people stuck in line behind you). Had I been stuck waiting 10 minutes for you to save such a tiny amount of money, I’d have happily paid you the $3 just to get out of my way!
August 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I get this frequently in shops where I live. Often it ends up in me blocking a line, the manager trying all sorts of “just accept it” tactics (which don’t work), and my wife usually gets annoyed beyond belief. My theory? If you advertise it, you stick with it.
I want to make something clear. IT IS NOT ABOUT $3. The store is doing something illegal (perhaps not intentionally), bottom line it is advertising something it does not intend to honor fully. And that is worth the annoyance it takes to get through to some of these stores.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Is your “principal” worth the time, money and frustration of everyone behind you in line too?
August 7th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Bravo! Keep them in check.
As one who has designed many coupons, we pore over those details and fine print. If we don’t include something as an exception then the consumer has full right to exercise it.
As a consumer I have also drew a line in the sand with my local supermarket that claims they no longer except Internet-printed coupons. But until it is a posted policy I will continue to use them.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:29 am
I once stopped at a large computer store to buy a stack of CD-Rs. I happened to have an ad for a competitor with a sales price for just that. The competitor was out of my way, and this place was on my way home and they had a price-beating guarantee.
I presented the stack and the competitor’s ad to the cashier, who promtly MATCHED the price. I told him that their policy, clearly stated on a sign nearby was to BEAT the price. He told me that this was how they beat the competitor’s price, by matching it. No manager was available, but the head cashier took the same postion and there was a line starting to back up behind me, so I paid and left.
On the way home however, I kept thinking about it and got upset. So I looked up some information on the corporate web site and fired off an email complaining about their misinterpretation of the word BEAT. I explained that I knew it was only 1 cent, but it was the principle that mattered.
A few days later, I got a snail mail from the manager of the local store. He apologised for the mistake, promised that the employees would receive training on the policy, and he included a $20 gift certificate. I thought that was an excellent example of how to respond to a complaint.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Dave said: “If you’re forcing the jaws of common understandings open to reach down the gullet and get $3, you’re just being obstinate.” It’s a slippery slope Dave. Consumers need to fight back to marketing tactics. The coupon entices the buyer into the store in the hopes that in addition to the backpack, she buys other school supplies for her children. Once at the cash desk with her $75+ total, the nonapplicable $3 coupon doesn’t seem like such a big deal so the purchaser says, “it’s okay, forget it”. Psychology and marketing rolled into one $3 coupon. Good for the writer making the company make good on its coupon promise. It should have done so sooner.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I think that in some instances we should stand up for ourselves on principle as you did (and I really like that a disadvantaged kid will get a backpack). Yet in other instances we should refuse to get lost in the weeds. Three dollars is a weed in the big picture.
In the big picture, our culture consumes way too much, both from the perspective of personal finance and our aggregate debt-load, and from the perspective of the earth’s resources, which we’re depleting at a dizzying rate. For my related article on reducing energy use while maintaining a high quality of life click here.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I agree fully. I once refused to pay an extra 10 cents at Chipotle once. The cost of chips said $1.25 on the menu, but rang up at $1.35. “I’m sorry, but we haven’t changed the menu”, they said. It was not about the money, but about the principle of them honoring their advertised price.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:52 am
My wife works at a company where a guy with NO case is suing over discrimination. The guy’s lawyer has come to his senses, and wants to settle for $8000. Now, the company could easily just pay $8000, and probably be better off than paying its own lawyer fees, but if the company does that, then word will get around, and suddenly many more discrimination lawsuits will appear.
Sometimes, it is better to fight out of principle, even if it is not worth the time and money. This will set precedent for acceptable behavior.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
The difference, of course, being court cases can set actual precedence. Fighting with cashier #29427 at Giant Mega Corp accomplishes no such thing. It does not affect the company in any way, and it certainly does not change company policy.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:33 am
This is a great idea, but immediately ineffective. Having worked at similarly-run retail establishments, what I know is that the manager will give the coupon just to avoid the argument, and then there it will stay.
Managers and employees have absolutely no say over company policy. As a cashier-level employee, I can’t even override coupons most of the time. The computer simply won’t let me. My job is to try to get you to shut up and let me do it the way I was instructed, even if I agree with you, or to call my manager and let him deal with you.
If my boss, the general manager of the store, had said to his boss, “Five people came in this week pissed because the coupon didn’t explicate our store policy,” his boss would have laughed. There’s nothing they can do.
The immediate result of this is that you feel self-righteous, and everyone around you feels annoyed at you for something they have no control over.
If you are this irritated over a coupon, you should deal with it in the appropriate manner. Write to someone who does have control over these things. If that doesn’t work, escalate it. There are several appropriate ways of dealing with this that do not involve having a hissy fit in the store. Yes, they are more time consuming. They are more effective, however.
You may have won the scuffle, but it has no effect on the war.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
You go Donna! Stores and corporations rely on the apathy of customers. They think that no one will bother to complain over just $3. But all those $3 add up to huge profits. Good for you for standing up to the big guys!
August 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am
@Dave - Did you really email a complaint over 1 cent? Really?
August 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am
When I worked retail I would usually be pretty generous with our coupons. Of course I worked at what was more of a local company and keeping our customers was more important. Sure people could have made fake coupons and brought them in, but I doubt they would put that much effort into screwing us out of $3. Our managers had some common sense too, which was nice.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:13 am
@Kevin - Really, I did. It wasn’t so much over the penny, it was because they had a big sign that said they would BEAT any advertised price, but instead they just offered a price match. If they had simply said “we will MATCH any competitor’s price”, I would have accepted it and never looked back. It was the fact that they had the nerve to argue that a match was the same thing as beating the price - this is what got my back up. I truly never expected any sort of response. I just sent them a polite email that said I didn’t understand their policy because they defined “BEAT” differently than I did. Hey, it cost me all of 2 minutes to look up an address and fire off the email, and I sure felt better after I hit send, so it was totally worth it to me, even before I got their response.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:17 am
There are a lot of things wrong with this exchange, and Kevin et al. are right that $3 really isn’t worth it. But I zeroed in on this part:
Nancy said, “I’ll give you the coupon on one of them.” I replied that nowhere on the coupon does it say that it was good for just one item.
“It says ‘one-time use’, so I’ll let you have it for just the one.” I suggested that “one-time use” might actually mean that I couldn’t use the coupon again the next day.
The common understanding is that a coupon is that you can use one coupon for one item unless the coupon specifically says otherwise. Sorry, Donna, you’re clearly trying to game the system.
(Also, #1 BK, you’ll remember that Michael Scott ended up paying full price for all of his pizzas.)
August 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Have worked in retail and I think there are both sides to the story:
1) Don’t be rude to the cashier. They don’t care if you get your $3 either way. If you make sure that you are not implying that it’s somehow their fault and you ARE HELPING THEM WITH A SITUATION THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO FACE AGAIN, they usually bend over backwards to help you out. (Believe me, you get one bad coupon situation and it will come up 10 times a day)
2) It’s the managers job to take care of just this type of situation. To say that they you are wasting their time is just silly. You’re not wasting their time - if they are clocked in that’s what they are there for. If you were asking them to come outside and check your oil which is not their job, then you would be wasting their time.
3) I believe that a lot of managers are to blame for this type of situation. If I go up to a register and there is some confusion on both sides about how the coupon works - 99 times out of a 100 when they call the manager will just let it go without even looking at it. While this seems good, it’s not. That expired coupon they just let go through will tell that lady that if you question anything at that particular store you will get what you want as long as you call a manager. This is a nightmare for the cashier. As long as the rules are clear on the sale/coupon then the manager should have your back, not make you look like a moron to the customer. (I think this is why it is most peoples gut reaction to yell at the cashier)
4) Cashiers and Managers can have a bad day just like anyone else and yeah, they probably hate their job. But there are days that I hate my job and if I was a big pain in the butt to everyone I came in contact with or just said “NO! Asking me to do — isn’t part of my job description!” to a client and I would be in BIG trouble.
It’s your job. I’m sorry if you hate it - but you get paid to be here. As long as I’m not asking you to do something that has nothing to do with being a cashier, then you are being paid to help me.
5) Yes, it’s $3 for one person. But having been a cashier several times before if you send out a big weekly flyer with something like a 20% off coupon off on something you already have on sale, this fight is going to come up AT LEAST 10 times a day. Bare minimum. So that’s what? $30 a day that the company didn’t discount the customer? and $210 a week that the sale runs? with average at least 10 stores in a metro area? Wow, that three bucks just from you became a profit of $2100 to your area Office Max in just one week. And that was only on the coupon you knew about….
August 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
But you spent more than $3 of your time.
I get the principle argument, but can you actually say this was worth your time?
August 7th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Plenty of people already said this but I wanted to say it again:
Good for her! She’s not wasting her time negotiating this, it was the manager wasting her time. I can’t believe that the manager didn’t just over ride the transaction and give it to her… They can do that, instead they had some power trip…
August 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I would have just paid $30 for a Land’s End backpack that wouldn’t require me to leave the house and would last 2 years instead of 2 months. Whenever stores run things really, really cheap like that I just stay away cause the crowds are a huge time waster.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:28 am
You are absolute right to fight. It doesn’t matter what was intended by Office Depot. It matters the integrity of what they stand behind. Not tolerating lousy customer service is the only way for the small guy to fight back. Otherwise, apathy brings about higher prices because, heck, why would the customer care because “they are not saying anything and they are still buying.”
I would write Office Depot and let them know how many people have read this story. Managers should be trained better to accommodate for these types of situations, especially when they know that they can loose a customer. -Cheaplee
August 7th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Kevin-
The only reason I talked to a manager is because he was rude and was intentionally mishandling my produce (my biggest pet peeve in grocery stores). I understand that people can have bad days but I’m a college student and can’t afford to be overcharged a dollar, and when someone mistreats something that I worked very hard to afford, its unacceptable.
I do also talk to managers when I have a GREAT cashier, BTW. I’ve worked retail for most of my working life, some of it at walmart, and I know how crappy of a job it is. I certainly never was that rude to a customer though. If I was in a bad mood, I was just less chatty, or said what i was required to (”hello how are you, this is your total, have a nice day”). Even after the drunks get mad for you refusing to sell them alcohol, or a customer accusing you of selling your soul because you work at walmart.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Reading this post was pretty upsetting to me. Donna’s smug attitude towards “sticking it to the man” is not commendable - it’s tacky and obnoxious. I’ve always assumed it was a given that you can’t combine discounts. I feel badly for the cashier and the manager - why is Donna proud of spreading negative energy by making someone’s job more difficult? It’s not their fault that corporate made a mistake when printing the coupon. I highly doubt the $3 was worth making the world a more unpleasant place for people in customer service.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Follow up to #18… If you argue with the cashier/manager at the store level, corporate never hears about it. You have wasted everybody’s time. If you truly want CHANGE in corporate America you must write to, or call them. Other wise you are just squabbling over change in your pocket!!!! The pen is mighty!
August 7th, 2008 at 11:50 am
You should be embarrassed by this transaction and instead you’re proclaiming it to the internet. This is only one side of the story -yours- and still you are portrayed badly.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Good job, keep it up!
August 7th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Amen, Sister!
I absolutely agree with Donna’s actions. The stores don’t get to make up the rules as they go along. In my opinion, a coupon published in a paper is a form of a contract with the consumer. Based on this “coupon contract” we invest money (gas) and time (selecting items, waiting in line)in the associated store. And it is more than irritating to be told after we’ve invested our valuable and limited commodities that we will not be receiving our “return on investment.” (I don’t know about the rest of you, but I consider my time a valuable commodity that a company does not have the right to waste because of sloppy administrative processes, buraucracy, or inadequately trained employees.)
Besides, if the fact that coupons don’t apply to sale items is such a standard policy, why isn’t it also standard policy to have this restriction printed on every coupon the store publishes? If it’s not important enough to put the effort into establishing a mechanism to ensure this restriction is clearly and routinely identified, then it must not be that important to the store period.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
When I stand up for myself in these sorts of situations, I feel the same way. I’m not trying to stick it to anyone. I’m just trying to get what I paid for, or get what I was promised.
That’s the point here, I think.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Sabina,
“I’ve always assumed it was a given that you can’t combine discounts.”
“It’s not their fault that corporate made a mistake when printing the coupon. I highly doubt the $3 was worth making the world a more unpleasant place for people in customer service.”
As much as I’d like to think that they don’t make this stuff confusing on purpose, they do. Just like how lottery people know that most people don’t check their tickets, or how they hope you throw away the winning candy bar wrapper so they don’t have to give out that “grand prize” - a coupon is the same way. It’s a gift to get the customer to come in and they would LOVE for you not to use it. One unused confusing coupon spread over thousands of customers equals a lot of cash.
(Heck, we have a friend who works for a company that inusures corporate contests like that. They NEVER actually have the prize - they buy an insurance policy so on the small chance that someone can actually prove they won they can hand it out. Our friend told us that every time you get a “Win a $1000 Shopping Spree” for filling out a survey you get from a chain resturant on a recipet to FILL IT OUT! He says that so few people actually fill it out because they think they can’t win the prize (ie. the really big coupon!)that your chances of winning are actually really good!)
You’re right, it’s not their fault that the coupon is wrong. But you are not buying a backpack from THEM. You are buying a backpack from Office Max and they work for Office Max. The manager needs to hold the company responsible for what she should do about it.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I spent 12 years working for the world’s largest retailer and I am very familiar with sales tactics to draw customers. This store forgot the most important point, once you get a customer in the door make sure they leave with a positive experience!
http://middleclassdream.wordpress.com/
August 7th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
+1 on Tom Feldsten’s comment.
I was kind of agreeing with this lady at first, but really she is just being a greedy a**. She’s violating the spirit of the coupon. The company is already losing money on this product. I love Consumerist.com and am all in favor of holding companies accountable, but how many time has she gotten freebies from businesses?
Consider Bed Bath Beyond’s 20% coupons that will be accepted past expiration. Both they and LNT take each others coupons - even expired! I used a 1-day expired Chick-fil-A coupon the other day and no one said anything. THEY could have been sticklers, but weren’t.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Good for her! The dollar amount is not a big deal because it isn’t huge but when they start fighting what is fairly obvious then you need to stick to your guns and its great to see Donna do so. Really if corporate didn’t want something like this to happen then maybe they should have said so up front and if its a mistake than suck it up and deal with the consequences of your actions.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I’d be curious to see what all of these people who say “how awful!” and “it’s only $3!” would say if:
a) $5? $10? $20? Still not worth arguing over?
b) let’s say you saw it happen to three people in a row? Still no big deal? What if they were your friends?
c) if you were a cashier in training and saw this exact situation go on 5 or 6 times. (I am positive it would with a major store putting out a 20% off coupon with a sale already going on). Wouldn’t you question why the store would even have a sale and a coupon out at the same time if they knew they would make your computer reject you at the counter?
What would it take to make you mad enough to say something?
August 7th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
A lot of you are missing the point. Complaining to the low-level grunts in the store serves no purpose, but your own smug satisfaction. If you want to affect change you have to do it at the corporate level.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Of course stores should abide by the published conditions for their coupons, and I’d have argued the point too. But then I would have reminded myself that:
The computer that doesn’t let the cashier over-ride, well that is ‘corporate’s’ way of limiting the cashier’s discretion. That cashier has a lousy job: no real control or ability to make good decisions — all done for him/her by a computer programmed in another state! It’s not the cashier’s fault he/she can’t override, nor is it the cashier’s fault that the store doesn’t keep its word.
Direct your anger at ‘corporate’ as a model for retail!
Nancy, the manager, is the first step, the corporate office the second. Better yet, try shopping local, where you can actually talk to the owner (or a manager or employee who some real discretion). Reward the places with good service with your business. Yes, their products may (probably do) cost more. But you get what you pay for when you visit big box stores where decisions are made in ‘corporate-land’ and then hardwired into computers.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
While many of us (including me) would give up on the $3 before Donna got the situation resolved, I am glad there are people out there who are willing to make that kind of stand.
Knowing that there are people in the world that will go through the effort needed to right the wrong keeps the worst abuses in check. Similarly, people have secured many of our rights by being to navigate the legal system way beyond what many of us would have been willing to do.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
I agree on the ’stand up for yourself’ concept…however, how much is your time worth? Even worst case scenerio this extra time talking to manager, cashier, and finally getting the discount was 15 minutes, I believe my time is worth more than $12 an hour….
August 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
“Complaining to the low-level grunts in the store serves no purpose, but your own smug satisfaction. If you want to affect change you have to do it at the corporate level.”
For a lot of people that $3 isn’t nothing. It costs me almost $5 to buy a gallon of milk for my toddler and our grocery bill is very, very tight.
I don’t cut coupons for my “satisfaction”, I do it so maybe those 10 coupons where I save 30 cents each can help keep my budget in check and maybe I can afford to buy a toy or a treat.
Not everyone makes a lot of money! (Particularly not that “low level grunt”)
Besides if you go to the register with a $2.99 backpack and they had the price plastered all over the store and said “Oh, we are actaully charging $5.99 for that.” You would want a resonable response why you were being charged more.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Again, I don’t think we are reading from the same sheet of music. If you want to actually hold businesses accountable to the public for their misleading behavior then you have to go through their corporate office. Complaining to the cashier or manager servers no purpose other than to put money in your pocket.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Touche!
The dollar amount is meaningless. It’s the principle behind this situation that’s important. My guess would be that most consumers would let it go and not press the issue. But for those buyers that do, it only makes good sense from a business standpoint to make their buying experience positive-a reason for them to return again. The customer is always right but it seems that nowadays too many businesses have forgotten this important adage.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
“Complaining to the cashier or manager servers no purpose other than to put money in your pocket.”
Other than putting that money back in my pocket. That’s exactly what the point is.
I could care less about the business practices of Office Max. What I care about is that the store I’m in is trying to take my money and I’m not going to let them.
If the manager doesn’t like all the customers complaining holding up the line, then that manager needs to talk to corporate. They are much more willing to listen to him then to me.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I agree about the principle, but I’m more with Bether:
“…The immediate result of this is that you feel self-righteous, and everyone around you feels annoyed at you for something they have no control over.
If you are this irritated over a coupon, you should deal with it in the appropriate manner. Write to someone who does have control over these things. If that doesn’t work, escalate it. There are several appropriate ways of dealing with this that do not involve having a hissy fit in the store. Yes, they are more time consuming. They are more effective, however.
You may have won the scuffle, but it has no effect on the war.”
August 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Part of the problem that hasn’t gotten a lot of attention here is the enforced helplessness of the cashiers. If cashiers make a mistake, they can’t correct it themselves - they have to call a manager over to turn a key. (Message from company to employees: we know you’ll steal from us as soon as our backs are turned.) Even the managers have trouble sometimes figuring out what the magic code to override whatever has been programmed into the computerized registers.
Too often, it’s easier for these front-line employees to make up “reasons” why the coupon/discount/whatever won’t work and try to get the customer to go away quietly. It isn’t evil, just stupidity - on the part of those setting corporate policy and programming those registers.
If you set up systems that make it easier to turn away the customer with a lame excuse than to actually help them buy what they want at the advertised price, and if you pay employees minimal wages and give them minimal training, what you get is a lot of people doing what’s easiest for themselves - not what’s best for the customer (or ultimately the company).
So yes, stay and fight the battle in the store if you want, or write a letter to corporate, or if you have the time, do both. Also, if you find a store that gives its employees latitude to make the customer happy, it may be worth it to stick with ‘em, even if their prices aren’t always the cheapest.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
If this bothers you that much, show it by shopping at a local store next time. Of course, they won’t be selling backpacks for $2.99, but I’m willing to bet they always give the customer the benefit of the doubt.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Wow! I can’t believe Office Depot put up such a fight! When I worked in retail, we would never have fought with a customer like that, we would have given them what they wanted in a situation like this. Hell, the management made sure that the front line employees were empowered to deal with a situation like this, and make the customer happy, without having to call a manager.
Sure, there are times when a person is legitimately trying to scam the company, and employees may have to act as though the customer is NOT right, but something like this is not one of those situations. I’m dumbfounded by the behaviour of the Office Depot employees in this story.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
“There are several appropriate ways of dealing with this that do not involve having a hissy fit in the store.”
I don’t really think she was having a hiss fit in the store (But yes, there are a LOT of people out there who do). Personally, I see a lot of times that the managers are the ones having a hissy fit at the customer.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I think Donna did the right thing on principle. It is important for consumers to speak up and not let companies get away with practices like this.
Even if you ignore the matter of principle, I also think that saving $3 should not be dismissed as a ‘waste of time’. If I read right she spent 10 minutes discussing the issue and saved $3. Thats $3 for 1/6 an hour or $18 after tax dollars or more like ~$25 per hour pretax. Thats pretty good return on time compared to a lot of peoples pay rates. Where we each draw the line about what is worth our time is an individual choice.
If you do complain like this then its best to keep it civil and be polite to the cashier and manager. They are just trying to do their jobs and its not going to improve anything by being rude to them. Sounds to me as if Donna kept it civil.
I think its important to complain at the low level first. If the clerk had the policy wrong then complaining might get a manager to quickly resolve it. If you don’t complain then they won’t fix it. Its also important to follow up and also complain at the high level. Donna should follow the bad experience in the store by writing a letter to corporate. It is in fact the corporate policy that caused the issue in the first place.
Also, by the way, this is not ‘bait and switch’ by definition.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/ad-faqs.shtm
“How does the FTC define “bait and switch” advertising?
It’s illegal to advertise a product when the company has no intention of selling that item, but instead plans to sell a consumer something else, usually at a higher price. For more information, ask the FTC for its Guides Against Bait Advertising.”
Jim
August 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
There’s a lot of comments on here about being in the right and sticking to your guns. However, what really bothers me about this particular case is that it is totally not clear that Donna is in the right.
1) A coupon is for one item. She wanted one coupon applied to 5 items. The language on the coupon made it pretty clear it was for one item. <– This is the main argument why people are having problems with Donna’s post.
2) The backpacks are already on sale. Corporate obviously meant for the 20% off coupon to be used for non-sale items and so they should have marked it as such. I understand that the coupon didn’t specify that, but she’s getting a freaking great deal on a backpack already and guess what? Corporations make mistakes sometimes. Just b/c amazon.com offers a Wii for $1 mistakenly on their website does NOT mean they have to give it to you for $1.
3) Her main reason for sticking to her guns is to fend against the bait and switch. I could totally argue that this is not a bait and switch tactic and just an honest mistake by Office Depot.
J.D.’s case (the one he linked to) is much more clear cut and in that instance I commend him for fighting for his $4. But I think what really irks me about Donna’s situation is not so much the small amount of money involved, but a combination of her murky logic the fact that it’s only $3.
August 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
@Rachelle211: “If the manager doesn’t like all the customers complaining holding up the line, then that manager needs to talk to corporate. They are much more willing to listen to him then to me.”
Actually, no. Corporate is MUCH more willing to listen to you than to a front line manager, and you would have MUCH more influence. Clearly, you’ve never worked in retail, nor known anyone who has (at least not at the front-line of a big-box)
They care what YOU think, because you give them money, or not, based on how irritated you are. They don’t give a DARN what the front line manager thinks: The manager is beholden to the company for a job, but “My way or the highway” is the company’s attitude towards branch employees.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
@ CFO (#43),
Does your company allow customers to make a mistake, such as paying their bills late or simply forgetting to pay at all? Or, like most companies, do they charge out wazoo?
Why should companies be given a break on mistakes or oversights? People are paid money to check over these things. Many people look at the ads. I’m sure there’s a stock disclaimer that they could have just printed on the coupon.
It’s not a valid argument to say she was “beating the system” or taking advantage. The company offered a special deal and then the store tried to invalidate it. She chose not to pay the higher price. It’s rather logical to me.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
this happened to me yesterday!
i was ordering a new 4GB SD card for my camera on the circuit city website, to pick up later that day at my local store. there was a standard 4GB card for $25, and an ultra card (faster) with a usb reader for $30! so i chose the more expensive one - it was better, and i could use the usb reader on my laptop.
WELL, i got to the store, and they tried to give me a plain ultra card with no reader. i calmly explained that i chose the more expensive card to get the reader, and asked if they could provide me something comparable. the guy helping me, though very nice, didn’t seem to understand what i was asking. when he finally said he didn’t have any comparable product, nor did he have what i ordered, i told him i’d take the whole thing off my order rather than accept something less than what they sold me.
at that point he offered me $5 off, which i gladly accepted. actually, it worked out pretty good for me - i got a nicer memory card for the lower price!
yes, i took up the cashier’s time, yes, i annoyed the people behind me that were waiting, but at ALL times i was calm and pleasant, and i just wanted what i paid for. $5 is $5 and it can add up very fast! as far as i’m concerned, consumers have a right to argue against FRAUD, which is what it comes down to.
just don’t be a jerk to the cashier - no front line employee deserves to be abused when they’re just trying to do their job.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Hooray.
You did the right thing. The manager should have simply caved and done what the coupon said. Corporate was not careful enough and ended up costin g their own company a lot of money. You on the other hand made money at the rate of about $27 per hour.
($3/[10minutes]*6[10minutes]/hr.)= $18
$18/(1-marginal tax rate)= $27
Good job.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
People use coupons on sale items on a daily basis, though. For example, lots of grocery coupon clippers wait until an item goes on sale at their supermarket and then use the coupon to save more bucks. I never buy cereal without it being on sale PLUS coupon–so I’m spending $2 or less for a box of Cheerios or whatever. This kind of stuff DOES add up in the grocery budget of many families.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
beast without a name said: “Consider Bed Bath Beyond’s 20% coupons that will be accepted past expiration. Both they and LNT take each others coupons - even expired! I used a 1-day expired Chick-fil-A coupon the other day and no one said anything. THEY could have been sticklers, but weren’t.”
BB&B and LNT send out those coupons regularly. They accept expired and the other’s coupons because they markup their prices (by at least, you guessed it, 20%). They’re still making a huge profit on items after the coupon. They make more on the items you buy without the coupon simply because it was was brought you into the store.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Principles…yeah right…hehehe…whining 15 minutes over a $3 thing when you could have spent 15 minutes with your kids instead or could have made a lot more by working instead of acting like an idiot.
If we all would fight over every principle while shopping, then we would need 5 times more time to shop, not to mention all the others who have to wait for us…get real…sigh
August 7th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Just reiterating some great points that are being overlooked:
1) You may put a dollar amount on your time, but that is only applicable when you are working, or could be spending your time working. If it is after work and you aren’t picking up soda-cans that $3 dollars is the only way you are going to be making money in that particular 20 minutes. (Its a well-known economic principle, and I can’t think of its title)
2) You are not wasting the managers time, that is what they are being paid to be there for. They might have other ways to spend their time, but solving problems on the floor is why they get paid more than cashiers.
3) You have no debt to the people behind you in line. It may not be nice to make other people wait to receive your discount, but neither is it nice to call this women names and disparage her story.
4) Yes, cashiers have frustrating jobs some times, but so does everyone else. Being a cashier is not worse than most jobs where you have human interaction, it is part of your job to pretend to be friendly, cashiers just don’t get negatively impacted if they are jerks about it (unlike a waiter or waitress would in the tipping system).
5) Debbie was not being greedy, she was not taking more than she was offered, she saw an advantage and took it. That’s not being greedy, that is being a smart consumer. While if everyone did this, it might be worse for the world in general, (maybe, I guess?) she as a person should not be expected to make any decision that does not directly benefit her. And as I can see in the comments a lot of people are Wal-Mart shoppers, Costco, Winco, Target, and Safeway. You are not making the moral decision to hurt your own pocketbook, so don’t expect it out of anyone else. And if you don’t shop at any of these places, you have other values than your pocketbook, and you can’t expect this site (get Rich slowly) to cater to those interests. People are looking to save money, and using what a corporation has sent to your house to entice you to go to their store should not be considered taboo.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I keep commenting because I get more outraged as I read through the comments. I disagree with the people who say “one time use” means the coupon was good for one item only.
To me, that means you can use/present the coupon once, and then surrender it to the store. You can’t go to five different stores and buy out all the items with that coupon.
Does a one time use camera only take one picture? Most coupons or deals that limit the amount of items or product you can buy say “Limit __ per customer”.
I don’t understand the wasting other’s time argument. The cashier and manager were doing what they were paid to do. If you are too important or busy to wait in line hire a personal shopper or order online. If I am running late, I don’t expect others to accommodate me for my mistake.
This is not about taking advantage, sticking it to the man, being miserly, wasting others time, or other nonsense. This is about requiring companies to adhere to their own policies.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Basically, it comes down to this:
How much is not looking like an ass worth to you?
Because when you make a big deal over a coupon misunderstanding, even if you are completely in the right, you’re making several people’s lives a little bit more difficult and a little bit more irritating, and because of that, they will perceive you as an ass.
The error on the part of the store would have to be much more blatant and the cost to me would have to be much more than $3 for me to be willing to look like an ass.
Yes, stores should be more clear regarding their coupons, and yes it’s crappy that you’re being put in a situation where you have to choose between money and not looking like an ass, but that’s just how it is. You have to choose one, you can’t have both.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
If you owed your cell phone company, the electric company, the gas company, or a credit card company $3, they would TAKE YOU TO COLLECTIONS.
in new york the local drugstores are notorious for not changing prices, changing prices, not honoring coupons. i usually don’t fight for the item, i just ask them to void the sale. but i’m not going to pay more because of laziness, sloth, or ineptitude - unless it’s my own
August 7th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
The Manager flopped. If it really was corporate policy, she should have not given the discount and cited corporate policy. If the argument continues, then give the numnber to the DM and have the customer take it up with them.
Take it or leave it. End of argument. If you don’t like it, there is a Staples or Wal-Mart somewhere close by.
Move on!
August 7th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I wonder if the same folks sneering at this woman for trying to save a few more dollars are the same folks who claim that anyone can make it and those who don’t are just losers and whiners?
Forgive us little folks who need to save a few bucks.
Anyway, my hubby and I have lots of extra backpacks. I’ve given away some, but I think I’ll keep a few extra around for our future children.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
What is a major difference between highly successful people and everyone else? The ability to accurately prioritize things and focus energy accordingly.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Who cares whether you look like an ass or not. It really is the principal of the thing. Especially nowadays with gas being what it is if I make a special trip somewhere just to save a little extra cash, I will make a fuss over a large corporate company trying to weasel its way out of the savings I went there for in the first place. I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a small mom & pop shop only because a mistake in a coupon/price would be a result of them wearing enough hats not including proofreader. A large chain such as office depot has enough layers of people checking and double checking fliers, coupons and ads. If there is a mistake they should be called on it.