Odds and Ends: Mets, Cardinals, Phillies, Tigers

Come on Alex Meyer...

Carpenter had a very good rehab assignment on Sunday and LaRussa is (half-jokingly) pushing for him to start for St. Louis on Friday.

Kidding aside, he is probably 2 starts (14 days) away from returning.

If they make any move, it will be for bullpen help.

'Twas interesting to see Raul Ibanez on the header of that article. Tim's on point again for alluding to the fact it's now become a majors-wide OF drought (thanks LAA...) and thus the Seattle Mariners would naturally be the team to call with 300,000 OFs on roster, especially Rauuuuul.

I have no idea what the Mets would trade for Ibanez. Any Metros in here? :-D

anyone have any tips on how non subscribers can access the articles on baseball prospectus? it says articles are free but two that i went into (including the draft signings article) are restricted to subscribers

Hmmmm, if all the articles are free this week, how come it's asking me to sign in to read the article you linked to, Tim?

Ditto for me to on the "free" BP.

I want to read the article you linked to, im wondering if something about Brett Hunter is in there.

"Jacob Jackson thinks the Athletics should trade most of their remaining chips for one player: Colby Rasmus."

Who would be there remaining chips?

The rumors keep flying about a Holliday/Fuentes to the Phils deal, but there's never a clear offer that was made. Don McKee's article indicates that Carrasco and Victorino would have to be there, and possibly Marson and/or Happ as well. If it's three of those guys, the Phils have to make the deal now. At four, it may be worth waiting to see if the price dips as the deadline approaches.

Duchscherer, Ellis, Street ...

Colonel Tom: Having lived in and outside of Philadelphia for 12 years now, I would almost (not the qualifier almost) promise you the money is a bigger deal for ownership than Marson (the guy rumored to be the hold up). The $7MMish remaining on Holliday and Fuentes this year is a massive deal to a bottom line group like them.

"Who would be there remaining chips?"

Any deal for Rasmus would start with Huston Street and include a middle infielder (Mark Ellis or Bobby Crosby, and/or perhaps Adrian Cardenas if the Cards want a prospect instead). Beane has enough volume to give up a couple of minor leaguers to sweeten the deal if necessary.

Not Joe, you raise a good point - most likely the Phils have to kick in Marson if the Rockies are picking up any of the remaining salaries this year. The question is, is it worth the cash? Tough call for ownership.

Should have read "note the qualifier"; I hate when people speak in absolutes when they can't. Just saying everything in their history points to $$$, especially with a GM who has no real incentive to hold a prospect.

See also: Schuerholz, John 2007.

I doubt Colorado will kick in cash, its just a matter of Philadelphia deciding to really go for it. Considering their big attendance numbers this year, its probably not worth it to the current regime. From a strict baseball prospective, it seems like a no-brainer for a city that's dying for something positive to happen.

On the flip side of the cash equation, getting Holliday allows the team to let Burrell walk in the offseason, or at least puts them in a better negotiating position.

It's worth noting that the FA market for corner outfielders this offseason is really barren, so Burrell's likely to make a killing if he's not signed to an extension by then (which appears to be almost 100% certain that he won't).

In contrast, several big FA outfielders will hit the market in the '09-'10 offseason when Holliday will be a free agent, including Vladimir Guerrero and Jason Bay.

If I'm the Phils, I pay the $7M and figure I'll make it back on playoff revenue and not signing Burrell to a monster deal this offseason.

Carl Crawford, Xavier Nady, and Rick Ankiel also will hit the market after '09. That's gonna be a hell of an offseason.

Colonel,

If the A's gave up Street for Rasmus straight up that would be a fair deal. Maybe even favored for the Cards, because Rasmus has struggled, and even with his june improvements he still hasn't refound his power stroke. So why would the A's add another major league player like Ellis or Crosby??? No, they wouldn't. And why would the A's deal a recently acquired prospect, arguably the best 2B prospect in the game, along with a good closer for one other prospect?

AriGoldisaG, Because Rasmus is going to be a stud outfielder for a LONG time. If I was the A's I'd consider moving Street AND Duchscherer for Rasmus and another prospect.

It would be a LOT easier to aquire Matt Holliday if the Phillies had kept Adrian Cardenas. Besides, the Phillies have one of the top offenses in the MLB, they should use their prospects for a starter. Kendrick shouldn't be starting, so if they move him to the bullpen they can go get AJ Burnett or Justin Duchscherer.

AriGoldisaG, Rasmus went into this season as the #8 prospect on Baseball Prospectus' Top 100 list. He dominated AA last year when he was 20, and is holding his own in his first year of AAA at age 21. He plays a premium position well, and will be at minimum a 20/20 (probably a 30/30) guy in CF. He will be a superstar, and they don't come cheap.

As for Ellis and Crosby, Ellis is a FA at the end of this year, and while he'd help the Cards a fair amount down the stretch, their bigger hole is at SS than 2B, with Miles hitting well. Crosby's signed through '09, but he's been very disappointing at the plate for a few years now. The A's would love to dump that contract if they could.

I'm not sure either (or both) of those two guys would get it done for the Cards - it might take Duchscherer and Street to make the deal happen. And the Cards might do better to keep Rasmus and look for a cheaper option.

If the Cardinals gave up Rasmus for Huston Street, it would rival the Mulder deal as far as Beane fleecings go. Rasmus is still one of the top five prospects in the game and was on fire in June, trading him straight up for a reliever is inexcusable.

Though I have to admit, the proposed Duchscherer, Street, Embree, Ellis, Crosby deal in that blog post would make the Cardinals' playoff chances this year a lot better. I mean... wow.

The Mets are looking for a left fielder, Manny is more of a pain in the a$$ for Red Sox management every day and Omar Minaya has pursued him like the Holy Grail in the past. Would he give up F-Mart and someone else who's ready to step into the Sox bullpen to get the deal done?

Manny Ramirez for F-Mart and a setup man? Are you high?

Re-reading the articlle has shown me what you guys are talking about, I don't think beane is that stupid however. Maybe Duchsherer/Street and Ellis/Crosby. There is no way beane gives up 4 major leaguers for ONE top prospect. No chance. Oh and cmac, no matter how much of a pian manny may be, get real. You could get a lot more than f-mart and a reliever.

Street and Crosby for Rasmus and Adam Ottavino.

Nope, I'm not high, Colonel Tom, just a realist. Remember when the Sox traded Nomar (and Matt Murton) for Doug Mientkiewicz and Orlando Cabrera in 2004? How'd that work out? The Sox have a need in the bullpen that becomes more glaring by the day. With Ortiz on the way back, they can get by with Lowell, Youk and Drew surrounding him. If F-Mart is supposed to be the second coming everyone is expecting, why not replace an aging superstar with a future stud?

Or be super creative and make a Manny trade followed by a Dunn trade.

If Rasmus is on the table, aside from Street you'd have to think some kind of middle infield prospect would also be on the table. Or maybe more pitching, since the A's are now incredibly deep.

Who wants Crosby though? Maybe Ellis, but does anyone really think the Cardinals would jettison their best prospect for Street and Crosby?

"He dominated AA last year when he was 20, and is holding his own in his first year of AAA at age 21. He plays a premium position well, and will be at minimum a 20/20 (probably a 30/30) guy in CF. He will be a superstar, and they don't come cheap."

That sounds like Carlos Gonzalez to me.

While I do like the possibility of Rasmus in the Oakland outfield, I don't think he's worth a significant amount of MLB talent right now....maybe two of Street/Crosby/Ellis just for the salary dump (including possible extensions), but Duke's value is at it's peak right now.

I could see Beane letting Street go, which won't really disappoint me that much. Beane does not value the position much in terms of salary, so a high dollar deal for Street is unlikely. Oakland has a knack for filling the role of closer and dumping them instead of paying for them. (Koch, Izzy, Foulke) Besides, they've got Casilla, Devine, and H-Rod waiting in the wings. One of them should be able to figure it out.

I liked ballerwhiteboy's deal. Street and Crosby for Rausmus and Ottavino. But I have a feeling that it'll be Ellis in the deal instead of Crosby. Then let Eric Patterson take the job for the rest of the season and then sign a veteran to a one year deal with an option, while waiting for Cardenas and Weeks. Those two will probably be the A's double play combo of the future.

But giving up that much major league talent for ONE prospect makes no sence to me, and I doubt Billy Would do that.

"But giving up that much major league talent for ONE prospect makes no sence to me, and I doubt Billy Would do that."

I agree, but we've never seen him in full fledge rebuilding mode. Maybe the Cards could throw in Ron Villone just so he can get another notch in his belt. Do they have anyone else that Beane could possibly want?

Pujols...............jk. But I think it would be another prospect, not a journeyman beane would be looking for.

Maybe we can pick up Pujols when he hits free agency. I'm not sold on the Justin Upton for $200 million idea.

Rasmus is not going anywhere.

Street for Rasmus straight up? Just because Rasmus struggled his first 2 months, doesn't mean squat. He's been a lot better as of late.

Huston Street on the other hand.......

Exactly.

Street for Rasmus? Really? People either are vastly inflating Street or underselling Colby Rasmus.

Not only would the As get a premier hitter, they'd get him for PEANUTS on the dollar.

Sometimes I wonder if people just make trades that sound good in their head without actually saying them out loud.

CMac, the Red Sox have the depth to get bullpen help without having to give up anything they'll miss. Why on earth would they give up their best hitter in that deal?

Manny Ramirez's VORP (value over replacement player), even in an off year like 2007, is around 35 runs. There are only a few relievers who come close - think Papelbon and Mariano Rivera. Huston Street is solid, but he's no Papelbon or Mariano - think more like Brian Fuentes.

The Nomar deal's an interesting comparison, but it misses the mark. Nomar had returned from a severe Achilles tendon injury in mid-'04, and it was painfully obvious he couldn't play shortstop anymore. Cabrera had a slow start in '04, but he was coming off a .297/.347/.460 season in '03. Also, Cabrera at the time was about as durable as they come (150+ games each season from 2001-2004), while Nomar was, well, Nomar - still very good when he played, but injury-prone.

In some ways, the Nomar/Cabrera deal was a bit like the Harden deal this year. Nomar's upside, like Harden's, could have made the deal extremely lopsided. But with the injury risk, the Red Sox calculated (correctly, as it turned out) that they could lose that upside and still have a strong offense, and that if Nomar stayed at his post-return level with the Sox, Cabrera's defense would offset the dropoff in offense from Nomar.

"I liked ballerwhiteboy's deal. Street and Crosby for Rausmus and Ottavino."

Of course you like that deal as an A's fan because you would have ripped us off. That trade is a joke. There 0% chance of Rasmus being trade let alone for a crap package like that. What does Crosby do for our team beside give us another bum middle infielder which we already have plenty of? What a joke.

Colonel Tom, its not really Manny's VORP you'd look at; its Manny + last reliever versus Street + Manny replacement.

NotJoe, you make a point, but I'm not sure it changes the outcome.

Presumably moving Manny would result in playing both Ellsbury (.262/.332/.363) and Crisp (.252/.304/.399) every day, with a slight sprinkling of Brandon Moss for seasoning. I suspect both of those guys are either at or below replacement level offensively as left fielders.

Meanwhile, in the pen, Boston already has four relievers who have appeared in 38+ games with ERAs under 3. They also have an embarrassment of riches in the rotation, where despite losing Curt Schilling they still have six or seven fully capable starting pitchers.

Would you rather have a fifth guy with a sub-3 ERA in the pen to throw 30 or so innings the rest of the season, or your cleanup hitter who's hitting .297/.397/.531? It's not even close.

Besides, good luck getting anyone to take on the prorated remains of Manny's $20M contract this year.

The Indians contacted the Red Sox about Manny the Red Sox asked for Adam Miller / Fausto Carmona and Aaron Laffey and Ben Francisco.

So now you have an idea what they are looking for .
And the Indians were going to assume the rest of Manny's contract.

anyone who thinks that rasmus gets moved anywhere is nuts...the kid is spectacular in every aspect of the game..and to give him up for a possible run at the series this year with a very strong division is doubtful that he gets moved...maybe somebody like brian anderson with chris duncan/anthony reyes in the deal would be about the extent of the cardinals prospects trades this deadline..